#1 Edited By XxdeathmakerxX. A mystical entity, he is the deity that powers Juggernaut through the artifact. It sent the Sentinels to Manhattan to sow panic, created a Central Park citadel, and unleashed an electromagnetic pulse. When the Avengers come to the rescue, Thor and Captain Marvel power through many of the Juggernauts with little effort in their destruction, a feat of strength Thanos proves he is not capable of completing. Due to the fact this entire species was wiped out, it isn't exactly known what they did to incur Odin's wrath; they might have ruthlessly invaded. Juggernaut has been one of the X-Men's toughest villains since almost the beginning. Cyttorak banned some PF5 from his realm. 1. Cy would make him his b!tch and force him and Juggs to make out for his perverted amusement. he found he could transform into a 1000-pound “Juggernaut Jr. Cyttorak if he can get Mikaboshi in his own dimension can. ". ". 9 years ago EisenfausteSpells are incarntations used to invoke Magic. . He's powerful enough to literaly ignore hits from Captain Britain, who gains his power from an entire magical dimension, and flatten him with one punch. Cyttorak was first mentioned by Doctor Strange when he used to Crimson Bands of Cyttorak to free an entranced woman in 1964 story from Strange Tales #124, by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. I think Toriko is strong enough to hang with the big boys now (at least some of them)Juggernaut's body is Cyttorak's former elder god body, it's inhabited by Cain Marko, Charles Xavier's half brother. Cyttorak is an ancient god who was worshiped by the beings of Earth until he was banished and moved to the timeless realm of the Crimson Cosmos. threads. he is powerful, i give him, but feat-wise, he still comes short when compared to Shuma-Gorath. 503 128. And yet, people still want to use him in vs. 10 KO's A Wendigo The Marvel Comics. Piotr Nikolaievitch Rasputin (Russian: Пётр Николаевич Распутин) was born on the Soviet collective farm, called the Ust-Ordynski Collective, near Lake Baikal in Siberia. . cyttorak hardley has any feats. The largest comic database online, Comic Vine features Comic Reviews, News, Videos, and Forums for the latest in and more!However, by framing Spider-Woman, Juggernaut proves that he’s capable of much more conniving feats,. Of course from feats alone Dormammu stomps; Cyttorak's only combat feat is breaking the Shield of Seraphim and he has slapped around PF Colossus, 1/5 of the PF. Cyttorak is an immensely powerful magical deity, who is omnipotent within his Crimson Cosmos. How Powerful is Cyttorak is it true that he was more powerful than the Living Tribunal. New Comics. Kinda pointless as one person could make a baseless claim saying he's >Odin, and another claiming he's = Galactus. While Thanos needed the gauntlet to accomplish such a task, the Mad Titan is no slouch without the infinity stones, either. Here are some feats for Cyttorak. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. That said, Cyttorak kind of lacks feats so Nekron could win based on that. Cyttorak fuels Colossus. However, Doctor Strange has access to a very powerful spell called the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak that can be used to bind his opponents. Strange are literally powerless before Cyttorak in the Crimson Cosmos. Cain Marko, also known as Juggernaut is the step-brother of Charles Xavier and one of the many known enemies of the X-Men. Through the portal, multiple Juggernaut-like beasts powered by the magic of Cyttorak emerge, wreaking havoc on downtown Miami. Superman is still a mortal and is, as such, still as vulnerable to the workings of magic, in all its forms and The Gem of Cyttorak is pure Magic. there's a lack of feats, so implied power is best bet assume they are out for the kill since neither wants the other to ever interfere with/alter their agents on Earth again. Chaos King kills. Manhattan with ease. Forum Posts. He turned the FF into video signals. First Fight - Yuga Khan and ,Modern Darkseid VS Cyttorak. and smacking Cyttorak. Anyway, we can use the the Galactus (Galactus had time for preparation, should be at least moderate-fed), and King Thor feats to scale him, instead of using out of panel stuff. I do not read alot of comics so I am asking. 6 years ago. While he still possesses a vast level of superhuman strength, the Juggernaut isn't nearly as powerful as he once was, nor is he as invulnerable as before. what feats does Cyttorak have. Forum Posts. threads. However, Cyttorak’s influence also made him desire to cause destruction and violence - going against his usual gentle nature. Forum Posts. Vishanti are wary of Cyttorak So Cyttorak is either equal or more powerful than Vishanti 1 member of Vishanti is Oshtur and Elder God Elder Gods>Zeus Also I found a quote by Tom Brevoort a Marvel. Cyttorak does have feats inside of the multiverse/universe. 1 More Powerful: The One-Above-All Is The Marvel Universe's Supreme Being. All against one, one against all. I've done as much research on the character as possible and found not many feats by Cyttorak himself, but found a few things to suggest his power. Highfather wins 6/10. Kinda pointless as one person could make a baseless claim saying he's >Odin, and another claiming he's = Galactus. If Odin has issues with a Galactus, mephisto. Mangog, or "The Mangog" as it originally referred to itself, is the physical manifestation and sum total of the hatred of a billion beings from a race that was slaughtered by the ruler of Asgard and the Norse Gods, Odin. Shuma can do the same and has far better feats in that category as far his fight with Genesis goes. Set (not Seth) vs. Cytorrak is an almost featless character, that's why threads like these never really get conclusive answers. #1 Edited By xyrzrockrain. Tricking. Because Cyttorak is around an elder god level being, which are above skyfathers. what feats does Cyttorak have. R1: Juggernaut - fully powered by Cyttorak vs Odin. round 2: wherever onslaught has a better advantage. Arguably the most infamous of all Marvel’s villains, Thanos has a laundry list of formidable feats, at the top of which is wiping out half of all life in Jim Starlin’s Infinity Gauntlet series. Summary. ". lucifer is at full power: these are the norse, the greek, and the egyptian pantheons from marvel and dc combined. All physical aspects are through the Juggernaut because Cyttorak doesn't have a physical form. Trigon has feats as he hasan't been imprisoned in his own dimension for a billion years. So Cyttorak would win, even outside Crimson Cosmos. The strongest you could probably get him is "Obviously more powerful than the strongest versions of Juggernaut. He needs to go into the Crimson Cosmos and get out Lois Lane (who for some reason has been held hostage by Cyttorak). 1. He possesses Ultra Senses, granted to him after he took the memories of Magus, gaining some of his abilities in the process. but isnt that what makes him so dangerous the fact we dont know. I don't see how he loses this. side-lying hip adduction muscles worked. He was warping the entire planet with his power. TheTyrant. In most instances, Illyana's performed mystical feats that prove her worthy of the name Magik. Cyttoraks power over-rules Serpents. It's not physical and has to. cyttorak hardley has any feats. Onslaught captured X-Man, adding both his and Franklin’s psionic powers to its own. I've done as much research on the character as possible and found not many feats by Cyttorak himself, but found a few things to suggest his power. While it may sound cool, levitation is actually a weak version of a flight power. 1. Cy would make him his b!tch and force him and Juggs to make out for his perverted amusement. Cyttorak Stomps. This is possibly also due to lack of research from the authors. Thanos 2. He now has to breathe, eat, drink, and sleep. Battle takes place in hell. what feats does Cyttorak have. llagrok. Whenever a Celestial appears on a planet, it usually heralds forthcoming destruction. Once a materialistic and greedy neurosurgeon, Strange's medical career was left in pieces after a debilitating car accident which severely damaged the nerves of his hands and made him unable to ever conduct an operation again. 58 results. Cyttorak has only given Juggernaut a fraction of his power, and Juggernaut had made many people in the Marvel Universe look like children. All Juggernauts powers are from Cyttorak. The DC Universe's Black Adam not only introduced the titular anti-hero Teth-Adam but also paved the way. And if he could merge the Sentry to the Void once again, and then bestow upon him the Crimson Gem of. And yes, Ken is extremely strong and has great feats of strength to the level. Feats and scans plz. 2. Who win this fight ? Surtur Plane Traveler. What feats does have Cyttorak have, other than hype? Yeah, like I said, if you look at just what each one has done on panel, clearly Odin is far more impressive. Cyttorak has almost zero feats to put him even at Odin's level, let alone Beyonder. Cyttorak Stomps. . It sent the Sentinels to Manhattan to sow panic, created a Central Park citadel, and unleashed an electromagnetic pulse. cyttorak hardley has any feats. Follow 1691. Illyana bears many titles; Colossus' younger sister, the Darkchylde of Limbo, and the Phoenix are just a few. That could literally apply to Cyttorak as well. and. He has no feats or statements that indicate he is anywhere near the power of The Living Tribunal - most of the time he is considered as being similar in strength. what feats does Cyttorak have. Full Powered Cyttorak(summons his Gem cuts the link with Juggernaut, negates the good Doctor the use of his spells) he uses his own enchantments on him(ala Odin using his own enchanted spear and wearing the Destroyer armor) after using his own echantments on him he turns into a Trion. what feats does Cyttorak have. Odin is no where near the lvl cyttorak is at. Cytorrak. He is just about everytime (barring a short incomplete fight during war of seven spheres) a source of power and a. cyttorack is a magical deity. Mephisto(in his realm) >>>> Cyttorak - Galactus battle the in-betweener (a entity that is between chaos / Order) long pig. The Vishanti show up with the LT to get rid of Slorioth--I think that tells me two things. The Fastest Man Alive, Barry Allen, is the Flash. Full Powered Cyttorak(summons his Gem cuts the link with Juggernaut, negates the good Doctor the use of his spells) he uses his own enchantments on him(ala Odin using his own enchanted spear and wearing the Destroyer armor) after using his own echantments on him he turns into a Trion Juggernaut like Demon. But for some reason I have a feeling that if they fought in a comic book today, Cyttorak would win. With the introduction of Doctor Fate in the DCU's Black Adam, fans are wondering who would win between DC's sorcerer and his Marvel counterpart. Soleran. It is greatly appreciated if you help out by reporting rule violations in this thread, and if it does not gain attention, report the incident directly to the VS Battles staff. In a war between Cyttorak's Avatar and Serpent's minion, Cyttorak's Avatar came out on top with the Serpent TPing his slave away at. PR Beyonder don't exist anymore. Any being who is powerfull enough. Cyttorak would destroy them. Even beings like Odin and the Phoenix find themselves having to use every ounce of power just to slow one down. At least Chthon has some feats. so new on here, havent seen this one around. It resides in the lowest point of reality, called the Below-Place, from which it. Full Powered Cyttorak(summons his Gem cuts the link with Juggernaut, negates the good Doctor the use of his spells) he uses his own enchantments on him(ala Odin using his own enchanted spear and wearing the Destroyer armor) after using his own echantments on him he turns into a Trion Juggernaut like Demon. Like a lot of these other spells, when Strange first began to call upon the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, they served a number of functions, like conjuring up an amulet, banishing a bad guy or showing. all of these battles will be fought in the crimson cosmos regardless because. Soratoumiga. When he was born, Professor Xavier's step-brother was merely a normal human named Cain Marko, but he was granted superhuman strength and endurance by the demonic entity Cyttorak when he touched a. Wrong. And no, IMO Highfather would beat Supes. Stomps 1/5th Phoenix Force Colossus. But in his defense, even Dormammu spoke of him in awe (calling him "Great". I don't think its something I can prove though. Originally posted by rougeredmage. fight takes place outside Cyttorak dimension. Mental Powers. (Adam: Legend of the Blue Marvel #2) 7. . Cyttorak also known the Destroyer, Lord of Oblivion, and Master of the Raging Storm, is an immensely powerful extra-dimensional being hailing from the Crimson Cosmos. This power didn't come easy. Saren. Bill Cipher is a triangular dream demon who exists in the Mind/Dreamscape and the true antagonist of Gravity Falls, secretly being responsible for many of the most important events of and leading up to the show. Kinda pointless as one person could make a baseless claim saying he's >Odin, and another claiming he's = Galactus. Cy would make him his b!tch and force him and Juggs to make out for his perverted amusement. That being said,. imo, the greatest feat Juggernaut's got is taking Thor's GodBlast. Mephisto Blackheart Dormammu Cyttorak Satannish Surtur pluto. Illyana Rasputin is a mutant sorceress linked to the demonic realm of Limbo, known in Earth's superhero community as Magik. Odin is a skyfather, cyttorak is a prinicipality, a very powerful magical entity. Kong was battling with Godzilla and suddenly he crashed into a temple, crushing Cain Marko before he becomes…Cyttorak runs the Gauntlet. ". LT is second power in Marvel. Discussion; Bug Reporting; Delete/Combine Pages1. what feats does Cyttorak have. So the scenario is this:Imperiex it going from world to world destroying everything. These two beings meet each other and make the bet that they are stronger than the other. Followers. He's so powerful that he could probably defeat Dr. Agamatto alone can handle Galactus, and he is only 1/3rd of the vishanti. Superman is still a mortal and is, as such, still as vulnerable to the workings of magic, in all its forms and The Gem of Cyttorak is pure Magic. Kinda pointless as one person could make a baseless claim saying he's >Odin, and another claiming he's = Galactus. Published Jul 8, 2023. #2. Cyttorak on his throne in the Crimson Cosmos, his personal dimension. Cyttorak is a powerful mystical entity. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. Then, when he stumbled onto the ultimate power by touching the Ruby of Cyttorak and becoming the human Juggernaut, he used it for the pettiest of reasons – robbery and revenge. 1. Gender: Male Age: Unknown Classification: God, Demon Powers and Abilities: Superhuman. As the Avatar of Cyttorak, Marko possesses massive strength, invulnerability, and a domed helmet that protects him from psychic attacks. When he was born, Professor Xavier's step-brother was merely a normal human named Cain Marko, but he was granted superhuman strength and endurance by the demonic entity Cyttorak when he touched a. But that was in his own realm. there's a lack of feats, so implied power is best bet assume they are out for the kill since neither wants the other to ever interfere with/alter their agents on Earth again. Next: Juggernaut Got His Own World War Hulk Way Before Bruce Banner. Follow 8235. Fight takes place in a world that borders both the Dreaming and the crimson cosmos so that each person can equally draw power from their realms-win byOne of the most famous magical beings, Cyttorak became particularly popular because it was a perfect early example of the Marvel Universe being one shared continuity. Cyttorak stomps. cyttorak hardley has any feats. "The more destructive energies that flow through the Juggernaut to Cyttorak, the more power the demon sends back to his. Cyttorak has only given Juggernaut a fraction of his power, and Juggernaut had made many people in the Marvel Universe look like children. 7593. At the end of the day, feats is what counts and Trigon has better feats. When Juggernaut gained complete control of the Gem and became Trion Juggernaut, he gained the power of levitation. You do downplay him constantly. Cthon. and thingies. D'Spayre with his power can control the fabric of the Universe. While he and his brother were serving the. Consumed by his own pride and self-pity, he. Tyrant is around skyfather level or a little bit below. Sure, he can float in the air, but the power of levitation implies that he cannot travel quickly. Assuming we follow some traditional Marvel higherarchy like TOAA > LT > E, D, O, C, and Cyttorak in feat has shown evidence that maybe. cyttorak will definitely be alot stronger in this realm than chathon. ” and perform many of the feats his father could. Kinda pointless as one person could make a baseless claim saying he's >Odin, and another claiming he's = Galactus. Cy would make him his b!tch and force him and Juggs to make out for his perverted amusement. Gen. Cyttorak explained that since villains are often in hiding or locked up, Cain's gifts of destruction had been sporadic, whereas as a superhero, Colossus causes endless destruction that serves as "an eternal banquet. Charles Xavier was a smart and sensitive young boy. Chaos king stomps. magical attacks but none against psionic attacks. This is perhaps the Juggernaut’s most impressive feat, as it proved. Full Powered Cyttorak(summons his Gem cuts the link with Juggernaut, negates the good Doctor the use of his spells) he uses his own enchantments on him(ala Odin using his own enchanted spear and wearing the Destroyer armor) after using his own echantments on him he turns into a Trion Juggernaut like Demon. 9 years agoThe thing is Jesus had feats when he fought Zeus. Originally posted by Colossus-Big C cyttorak hardley has any feats. Cyttorak doesn't have a lot of showings, but I say this depends on location. 1. Cyttorak if he can get Mikaboshi in his own dimension can. #1 Edited By comicfanforever. Round 1: Cain Marko as regular Juggernaut vs regular Chaos Marine as Khorne Avatar. 1. Ororo Munroe, better known as Storm, is a member and sometimes leader of the X-Men, a group of superpowered mutants brought together by Professor Charles Xavier to promote co-existence between humans and mutants and fight against crime and existential threats to the world. got to love people giving answers without having any feats from cyttorak aside of being more powerful than one of the 5 phoenix force avatars which is high herald- low trans at best. but isnt that what makes him so dangerous the fact we dont know. Kinda pointless as one person could make a baseless claim saying he's >Odin, and another claiming he's = Galactus. So Cyttorak would win, even outside Crimson Cosmos. . 0. He beats Maxima. Cyttorak doesn't have Agamotto's one decent feat of fighting Galactus to a standstill. If Colossus gets more feats in that form in the future, it might at least be debatable, but as it stands, a single fight is insufficient to claim Colossus would win. A great example of this can be found in X-Men #88 (by Alan Davis and Joe Casey), in which Cain Marko became the cosmic. And yet, people still want to use him in vs. Forums1) Battle on earth. r4, during feat itself, the serpants power trumphed cyttograk, however, when using the phoneix force, collosus wasnt able to rid. But now Thanos crapped himself when he saw krona, teleported off, and stoleBusiness, Economics, and Finance. . [1] Created by writer Stan Lee and artist/co-writer Jack Kirby, he first appeared in X-Men #12 (July. Over a thousand years ago, the Octessence, eight beings of magical power gathered together, their names being Balthakk; Cyttorak; Farallah; Ikonn; Krakkan; Raggadorr; Valtorr, and Watoomb. And yet, people still want to use him in vs. 3) Battle in Set's turf. aside from some writer-speak, which is notoriously difficult to take as fact. In a war between Cyttorak's Avatar and Serpent's minion, Cyttorak's Avatar came out on top with the Serpent TPing his slave away at. 8 years ago. Colossus-Big C. Illyana Nikolievna Rasputin, the indomitable mutant known as Magik, is a super-humanly powerful mutant with the power of teleportation, as well as being an unbelievably powerful and gifted. Summary. Overall more impressive, more feats, more hype. r4, during feat itself, the serpants power trumphed cyttograk, however, when using the phoneix force, collosus wasnt able to rid. When I read the feats of the original Juggernaut. I. and smacking Cyttorak. there's a lack of feats, so implied power is best bet assume they are out for the kill since neither wants the other to ever interfere with/alter their agents on Earth again. He served Cyttorak for decades until he fell out of favor with Cyttorak when he refused to destroy his own village, which had begun worshipping another god. "Dormy, without too many issues. VS. Technically, the Crimson God did affect this feat - but to Piotr's detriment, not his benefit! Indeed, this feat best displays what happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. 9. Steve used the Gem to warp reality; D'Spayre used the gem to warp reality (the universe) Juggernaut punched holes and shattered some. Not to mention the impressive feats of strenght of Cyttorak outside of his realm where performed via his avatar, the Juggernaut who is a conduit of his powers (let’s check Juggernaut feats:. Gender: Unspecified. And what feats does Cyttorak have to fight a Celestial? "Dspeir with a little part of Cyttoraks power was able to control the 616 universe. Discussion; Bug Reporting; Delete/Combine PagesCyttorak has only given Juggernaut a fraction of his power, and Juggernaut had made many people in the Marvel Universe look like children. Set (not Seth) vs. 5 years ago. Who is more powerful? Who wins?Because Cyttorak is around an elder god level being, which are above skyfathers. Here are ten times when Illyana seemed to be the most powerful mutant in existence! 10 Knocking Out The New Mutants. Franklin Richards VS Cyttorak -Richards is allowed childhood and adult feats. 0. The X-Men, Fantastic Four, Avengers and even Doctor Doom opposed Onslaught, and after Thor freed Xavier, Onslaught became even more powerful. Tyrant is around skyfather level or a little bit below. He's the only MAO with any past feats or appearances and is the master of the Old ones as stated on panel and in his OHOTMU bio, so by default I'd consider him the. Cain has made Thor look like a fool on more than one occasion, and took the god blast as if someone threw a notebook at him. 6 years ago. I would expect Colossus' power now exceeds the physical strength, stamina, durability and invulnerability of all but the near-cosmic level entities such as Thor, Gladiator, the Green and Red Hulks or cosmic beings such as the Sentry, the All-father Odin or the Heralds of. The Eye of Agamotto. Follow 301. Odin-----5. However, with the evidence given in the MCU of Thanos’ power level in relation to the Juggernaut’s most impressive victory, Juggernaut proves he is stronger than Thanos. Colossus tried appealing to Cyttorak that he can no longer be his Juggernaut due to having a piece of the Phoenix Force in him. Cytorrak. the gods have all there magical weapons like odin has his spear. Follow 1695. Cain has made Thor look like a fool on more than one occasion, and took the god blast as if someone threw a notebook at him. threads. Because according to Gillen, Hell Lords are supreme in their realm. Cyttorak is such a powerful being that he is able to send a lot of power Strange's way, which is spotlighted in the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. The One Below All is the dark side and a part of the cosmic being known as the One Above All, who is the supreme ruler of the Multiverse and the supreme embodiment of creation and compassion, which would make the One Below All the ultimate personification of destruction and hate. Stephen Vincent Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme of the Earth Dimension. 1. Also Cyttorak has already abandoned his throne before and left the Crimson dimension. The fight ultimately ends with Thor entangling Marco's fist with his hammer loop and banishing him even deeper into space via portal magic. #3 Edited By Achilles. just saying that he has no feats whatsoever to show that he IS. He has no feats or statements that indicate he is anywhere near the power of The Living Tribunal - most of the time he is considered as being similar in strength. These feats were amplified 1000-fold with the Juggernaut flowing through him which granted him nigh-invulnerability, greater healing, and that signature unstoppable motion. What feats does Cyttorak have that put him above Zeus and Odin? Zeus and Odin are immortals that can die. But in his defense, even Dormammu spoke of him in awe (calling him "Great". Powerful magic users such as Doctor Strange, The Ancient One, Dormammu. Cain has made Thor look like a fool on more than one occasion, and took the god blast as if someone threw a notebook at him. So durable enough to bounce off Thor's Godblast, mentally able to ignore Xavier, that kind of thing. Then Juggernaut jumped in and ripped Cyttorak's gem off his head. They fight to the deathjust saying that he has no feats whatsoever to show that he IS. Honestly, they're both featless and overhyped. We very rarely see Cyttorak in action so it's difficult to say what exactly his power level is. Okay some people were saying Cyttorak is more powerful than Odinforce/runeking Thor. guy222. . Invulnerability: The Juggernaut has body armor that gives Unearthly protection and a CL1000 force field covering his entire body that protects against physical and energy attacks, radiation, toxins, corrosives, cold, heat, and gases. #2 FREAKY1. Consumed by his own pride and self-pity, he. As his name implies, the One-Above-All is basically Marvel's most powerful god. Chaos king stomps. The Juggernaut stands out from the most powerful X-Men villains in the comics thanks to his tremendous strength and vaunted imperviousness to just about. The Archenemy was taking on every single being in the splinter realms all at once, that included. Trigon has feats as he hasan't been imprisoned in his own dimension for a billion years. Forum Posts. The Juggernaut has been one of the X-Men's oldest and most powerful foes since Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created him in X-Men #4. Note* I know that this is a bitch of a question as the actual gods themselves rarely get seen, I am just curious. Colossus-Big C. Odin is no where near the lvl cyttorak is at. And yet, people still want to use him in vs. No BFR. Don't even compare Highfather. While Juggernaut's current power levels aren't as strong as they used to be as he's rejected his connection to Cyttorak, he was still able to lift well over 100 tons and even draw on more power from the. Fans of the MCU have seen the spell as well, where it held Thanos while he was wielding several Infinity Stones, including the Power Stone. Originally posted by rougeredmage. Forum Posts. Cyttorack is more like on the level of Dormmamu who even Magik as the. But for some reason I have a feeling that if they fought in a comic book today, Cyttorak would win. "Dormy, without too many issues. Is Cyttorak above. #2 Edited By Lance Bastro. But that was in his own realm. Galactus, fed on four planets. Shuma has no feats. Kid Kurdy. he is powerful, i give him, but feat-wise, he still comes short when compared to Shuma-Gorath. However, upon his return to the land of the living, he found that Thanos had scoured the planet of nearly all life and the villian was nowhere to be found. Follow 8235. This is perhaps the Juggernaut’s most impressive feat, as it proved. 0.